Dissenters
BBC
Radio 2: Jeremy Vine and Dr Sarah Jarvis – 16th January 2015
This Doctor also doubles up as a TV ‘expert’ and is a standard GP working in a day to day practice in Hammersmith, is extremely well known for having vast amounts of criticism from fellow professionals in the Health Industry and the General Public.
Why?
She frequently, on prime time BBC Radio 2, makes outrageous comments such as,
‘No, diet doesn’t contribute to skin problems and no, nutritional supplements are not required. You get all the Vitamins, Micro Nutrients and Antioxidants you need from food.’
When it is well known, frequently documented in hundreds of scientific papers – and normal common sense, that diet does play a part in general skin conditions and that GMP Pharma Grade Nutritional Supplements (not EU / UK Food Standard, vastly inferior Grade Supplements) do make an enormous difference.
Herewith, from the USA mainstream TV, the Dr Oz Show in the USA, always in front of the UK – the USA Doctors DO HEARTILY RECOMMEND TOP GRADE GMP Nutritional Supplements.
P.S. The average UK standard Doctor has less than 3 days on Nutritional Training
This Doctor also doubles up as a TV ‘expert’ and is a standard GP working in a day to day practice in Hammersmith, is extremely well known for having vast amounts of criticism from fellow professionals in the Health Industry and the General Public.
Why?
She frequently, on prime time BBC Radio 2, makes outrageous comments such as,
‘No, diet doesn’t contribute to skin problems and no, nutritional supplements are not required. You get all the Vitamins, Micro Nutrients and Antioxidants you need from food.’
When it is well known, frequently documented in hundreds of scientific papers – and normal common sense, that diet does play a part in general skin conditions and that GMP Pharma Grade Nutritional Supplements (not EU / UK Food Standard, vastly inferior Grade Supplements) do make an enormous difference.
Herewith, from the USA mainstream TV, the Dr Oz Show in the USA, always in front of the UK – the USA Doctors DO HEARTILY RECOMMEND TOP GRADE GMP Nutritional Supplements.
P.S. The average UK standard Doctor has less than 3 days on Nutritional Training
THE BBC AND DR SARAH JARVIS WENT TOO FAR YESTERDAY AND I NEED YOUR HELP!!!
Herewith an actual email exchange
between a vitamin taker and his friend who is a UK Doctor.
Whilst everybody is entitled to a democratic opinion, it is worth pointing out that the Doctor hadn’t even cross referenced the top Pharmaceutical top vitamin Companies that she was ‘castigating’, showing a lack of knowledge on the subject. There is so much proven scientific medical evidence in different papers and publications relating to the benefits of taking a Balanced Top Grade Pharmaceutical Standard Vitamin Supplement that it appears the Doctor is slightly tunnel visioned. However, it seems likely that she is basing her answers and diagnosis on the vast majority of vastly inferior RDA Food Standard Supplements prevalent on the market, including every single brand in the United Kingdom, not one of which is GMP Pharmaceutical Grade standard approved.
Whilst everybody is entitled to a democratic opinion, it is worth pointing out that the Doctor hadn’t even cross referenced the top Pharmaceutical top vitamin Companies that she was ‘castigating’, showing a lack of knowledge on the subject. There is so much proven scientific medical evidence in different papers and publications relating to the benefits of taking a Balanced Top Grade Pharmaceutical Standard Vitamin Supplement that it appears the Doctor is slightly tunnel visioned. However, it seems likely that she is basing her answers and diagnosis on the vast majority of vastly inferior RDA Food Standard Supplements prevalent on the market, including every single brand in the United Kingdom, not one of which is GMP Pharmaceutical Grade standard approved.
Email 1: query to Doctor
> Subject: Nutrition for beginners
> Dear Doctor
It is I, your old friend here. A good friend is involved in Usana the vitamins and supplements company and is trying to sign me up as an agent and user.
> He is baffling me with much pseudo science and I thought if I quoted a few things you may have some opinion. I know it's not your main field but as you are brilliant...
> Dr. Myron Wentz is the scientist behind the company and allegedly the leading nutritionist and cellular scientist in the world! He patented the Epstein Barr viral diagnostic test kit found in all Western hospitals. Usana has Olympic WTA and other top sportsmen on board.
> He States that these days food is contaminated and does not provide the necessary goodness. Therefore supplements are needed and as most are only made to food standards they are not good enough. Usana make to pharmaceutical standard and so are more stringent.
> M. Tells me anti oxidants combat free radicals in my system. So those and chelated minerals and essentials need to be taken to balance the system. Free radicals are an atom, molecule or ion missing and electron so when it enters the body it tries to steal an electron to balance itself out. (?) from healthy cell and can lead to degenerative disease.
> They have come top of all supplement charts for 12 yrs.
> Have you heard of Usana? Does any of this make sense? Still wondering if any of it makes a difference!
> Subject: Nutrition for beginners
> Dear Doctor
It is I, your old friend here. A good friend is involved in Usana the vitamins and supplements company and is trying to sign me up as an agent and user.
> He is baffling me with much pseudo science and I thought if I quoted a few things you may have some opinion. I know it's not your main field but as you are brilliant...
> Dr. Myron Wentz is the scientist behind the company and allegedly the leading nutritionist and cellular scientist in the world! He patented the Epstein Barr viral diagnostic test kit found in all Western hospitals. Usana has Olympic WTA and other top sportsmen on board.
> He States that these days food is contaminated and does not provide the necessary goodness. Therefore supplements are needed and as most are only made to food standards they are not good enough. Usana make to pharmaceutical standard and so are more stringent.
> M. Tells me anti oxidants combat free radicals in my system. So those and chelated minerals and essentials need to be taken to balance the system. Free radicals are an atom, molecule or ion missing and electron so when it enters the body it tries to steal an electron to balance itself out. (?) from healthy cell and can lead to degenerative disease.
> They have come top of all supplement charts for 12 yrs.
> Have you heard of Usana? Does any of this make sense? Still wondering if any of it makes a difference!
Email 2: Reply from Doctor to Email 1
> Subject: RE: Nutrition for beginners
> Of course he is. No I haven’t heard of Usana but I personally wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. We can usually get everything we need from our diet, so unless you know you have a deficiency in a particular vitamin, mineral or other kind of nutrient or non-nutrient, I would have thought it would be dangerous to load your body up with stuff you don't know about, especially if the dose is greater than normal. Sure, if you are in danger of suffering from malnutrition like the cute little African kid on Usana's website, then taking a balanced set of multivitamins or specific ones to bring up their levels to normal is a great idea. But not if you are not deficient in them, you could end up taking more than you need and this can be harmful.
> For instance, a vitamin E trial was carried out a while back using higher than normal strength supplements, and only later did they discover that the people in the vit E group were actually worse off because new evidence showed that vit E works in synchrony with vit C in the brain and by taking high strength vit E they were unbalancing the interaction between the 2 vitamins in what turned out to be a potentially harmful way. Ah, I hear you say, I could just take extra vit C then. Unfortunately, most of the vit C supplements available on the market may not be the kind or type of vit C that would be needed to counterbalance the increase in vit E. And do you know how many types of vit E there are? Alpha- and gamma-tocopherol to name but 2. So which should you supplement? If you're in one country, you may normally get higher levels of the alpha one from your diet, so should you supplement alpha, gamma or both? And what about the other types? Could it be that overloading on one type will cause a deficiency in the others because the body gives preferential absorption of one over another? Usana have products with bioflavonoids and carotenoids, too. Some carotenoids (but not all) are converted to vitamin A in the body, you get them from eating a variety of coloured fruit and veg, and also from eggs from the grains consumed by poultry. So on top of a normal healthy balanced diet with plenty of vegetables and eggs you take supplements of vit A to improve your eyesight and hey presto you could be taking in toxic levels of vit A.
> Antioxidants taken in too high quantities can also have a deleterious effect on the body, as they remove the free radicals which may be beneficial in killing off nasty things like cancer cells.
> 12 years is not long enough to really understand the long-term effects, unless they have been conducting a clinical trial during this time? If so, I haven't heard about it, and previous supplement trials as far as I know show that supplements benefit those starting off with a deficiency but don't provide any clear benefit to those with normal levels. Frankly I don't think we know enough about these things for me to give you any advice other than leave well alone.
> Final message: 'bigger', 'stronger' and 'more' does not necessarily mean 'better'. Don't be swayed by these macho messages. If you think you are deficient in something, go to your GP and ask her to get a full blood analysis done to check. But bear in mind that they aren't expert nutritionists. Or go and see a dietician.
> Subject: RE: Nutrition for beginners
> Of course he is. No I haven’t heard of Usana but I personally wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. We can usually get everything we need from our diet, so unless you know you have a deficiency in a particular vitamin, mineral or other kind of nutrient or non-nutrient, I would have thought it would be dangerous to load your body up with stuff you don't know about, especially if the dose is greater than normal. Sure, if you are in danger of suffering from malnutrition like the cute little African kid on Usana's website, then taking a balanced set of multivitamins or specific ones to bring up their levels to normal is a great idea. But not if you are not deficient in them, you could end up taking more than you need and this can be harmful.
> For instance, a vitamin E trial was carried out a while back using higher than normal strength supplements, and only later did they discover that the people in the vit E group were actually worse off because new evidence showed that vit E works in synchrony with vit C in the brain and by taking high strength vit E they were unbalancing the interaction between the 2 vitamins in what turned out to be a potentially harmful way. Ah, I hear you say, I could just take extra vit C then. Unfortunately, most of the vit C supplements available on the market may not be the kind or type of vit C that would be needed to counterbalance the increase in vit E. And do you know how many types of vit E there are? Alpha- and gamma-tocopherol to name but 2. So which should you supplement? If you're in one country, you may normally get higher levels of the alpha one from your diet, so should you supplement alpha, gamma or both? And what about the other types? Could it be that overloading on one type will cause a deficiency in the others because the body gives preferential absorption of one over another? Usana have products with bioflavonoids and carotenoids, too. Some carotenoids (but not all) are converted to vitamin A in the body, you get them from eating a variety of coloured fruit and veg, and also from eggs from the grains consumed by poultry. So on top of a normal healthy balanced diet with plenty of vegetables and eggs you take supplements of vit A to improve your eyesight and hey presto you could be taking in toxic levels of vit A.
> Antioxidants taken in too high quantities can also have a deleterious effect on the body, as they remove the free radicals which may be beneficial in killing off nasty things like cancer cells.
> 12 years is not long enough to really understand the long-term effects, unless they have been conducting a clinical trial during this time? If so, I haven't heard about it, and previous supplement trials as far as I know show that supplements benefit those starting off with a deficiency but don't provide any clear benefit to those with normal levels. Frankly I don't think we know enough about these things for me to give you any advice other than leave well alone.
> Final message: 'bigger', 'stronger' and 'more' does not necessarily mean 'better'. Don't be swayed by these macho messages. If you think you are deficient in something, go to your GP and ask her to get a full blood analysis done to check. But bear in mind that they aren't expert nutritionists. Or go and see a dietician.
USANA Chief Scientist in response to UK Hospital Doctor's Email
Aside from the discussion of safety issues (which l will address later), much of her opinion is typical of many dietitians and health professionals who simply feel supplements are a waste and that all you need to do is eat a healthy, balanced diet. While this may be true to an extent, how many people actually do eat a perfect diet? l would submit that it is quite rare, and I would be willing to bet that she does not either on a consistent basis.
The following are a couple of links on our database related to the general reason for supplementing and a general safety response:
http://obs.usana.com/UPLOADS/usana/2005/236/236-1 OHA.html
http://obs.usana.com/UPLOADS/usana/2005
(the article is a little out of date, but the principle is still valid)
http://obs.usana.com/UPLOADS/usana/2011/63/63-1 NAA.html
Here is a response previously written to a similar question:
The "expensive urine" argument is fairly common, especially among traditional physicians and dietitians. The following is a response to a similar question that may have information that will be helpful for you.
"Many times people make statements like this without really thinking it through.
Besides a couple of obvious ones, how would you really know if a person needs x or y nutrient without testing. ln addition, they typically point to the common one like in your question: the B vitamins (there are 8 of them, including folic acid), vitamin C, vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, zinc, fish oil, etc.
Considering you can't really know a person‘s nutritional status without extensive testing and accurate dietary history, and then admit that there are 12-13 common ones that many people need, l don't understand the point of avoiding a multivitamin. This really reminds me of the official position of the American Dietetic Association on supplements. The paper spends the first two pages discussing why people just need to eat a healthy diet and that there is no need for supplements. Then it spends the next 6 or 7 pages talking about all the exceptions (B12, folic acid, calcium, vitamin D, etc, etc).
Wouldn't it just be simpler to take a good multi?
l can, however, broadly state that it is very difficult to precisely determine an individual's nutritional status unless specific and expensive tests are performed by a qualified physician or laboratory. It isn't as simple as many people might think. For example, it might be necessary to perform a certain blood test for one nutrient but it may require a completely different blood test to determine another nutrient. Historically, many questionable methods have been used to determine a person‘s nutritional status. Unfortunately, they simply cannot give an accurate indication of nutritional status for each nutrient all in one test.
Here are just a few examples of some methods used to analyze nutritional status:
· to assess the vitamin E status of an individual, an Erythrocyte Hemolysis Test using blood plasma is generally used
· a microbiological assay is used to determine folate levels in blood
· atomic absorption spectrometry is best to measure zinc
· urine analysis can be used to assess magnesium
· iron status is evaluated normally used serum or plasma ferritin
One way of determining whether or not your current diet is up to par is to list everything you eat for a week and determine the nutritional content of these items. It is a little more time-consuming than most people would like, but it gives you a fairly good idea where you stand nutritionally.
Ultimately, it really comes down to this: regardless of your current diet, it is highly unlikely that you are getting the nutrients you need to prevent degenerative diseases. The amounts of nutrients shown to be preventative in mainstream medical literature are generally higher than the RDAs.
The amount of nutrients a person should be getting is an interesting issue. First, it is important to note that all of USANA‘s products are supposed to supplement a well-balanced diet and not to replace good eating habits. Eating right and exercising is the basis for good health.
Our supplements are designed to meet the needs of all adults of any culture, size, age, gender, and weight. This is somewhat difficult to do, since there can be variations between people. To make sure we meet the needs of all individuals we put in a good amount of nutrients into our tablets. Every individuals who takes the products, regardless of culture, age, sex, weight, etc. - their body will use whatever nutrients it needs and either store the rest or excrete them in the urine or the faeces. As long as their kidney function is normal, this is not a problem. The important thing is to make sure that when those nutrients are needed - they have been provided in the diet.
Putting a balanced amount of nutrients in the products is the easiest and best method we know of at USANA to cover the needs of all normal adults.
For a simply analogy, I tend to think of the use of nutritional supplements like wearing a seatbelt in a car. You may never need it, and if you never get in a wreck you may even say it did nothing. However, if you do routinely wear your seat belt you are much less likely to be killed or severely injured if you do get in an accident. You wear it for peace of mind and prevention. I hope that makes sense.
The following is a booklet entitled Benefits of Nutritional Supplementation from the Council for Responsible Nutrition:
http://www.crnusa.org/00benefits toc.html
The following contains pages of clinical research on our products and collaborations with other research organizations. ln addition, about 4 years of Essentials of Health e-mails are archived here. Each week a peer-reviewed paper on supplementation, nutrition and health is summarized. These summaries are a great way to show third party published research in support of supplementation and
healthy lifestyle.
http://www.usana.com/dotCom/differencg/hir
To answer a couple of her specific points, she mentioned a concern over vitamin E. First of all, the dosage of vitamin E in the EU is 30 mg. This dosage is so far below levels proposed to be a potential concern (ie.>400 mg) that it isn't even relevant. ln addition, the product also contains mixed tocopherols (beta, gamma, delta), but maybe she didn't see that on the label.
The vitamin A activity in the Essentials is entirely from beta-carotene. And, as a dietitian, she should know that beta-carotene does not cause or relate to an overdose or excess of vitamin A at any known level. The EU Essentials contain 800 mcg (1,333 IU) of beta-carotene. Implying that this could be potentially excessive is laughable since a single carrot contains approximately 20,200 lU of beta- carotene.
As far as antioxidants being deleterious, again it is a matter of context and dosage. Oxidant killing of “foreign bodies" by our immune cells is a very localized phenomenon. For example, antioxidants would help blunt the nondescript oxidant stress/damaged caused by run-away, hyper inflammation. lt is true that people with poor diet or with certain health concerns may have more immediate or significant benefit from supplements, at least initially. But, implying that there is little research showing benefits of multivitamins in healthy individuals is simply just not true. The previous booklet (CRN link) provided some examples, and here is a very recent (Oct 2012) summary of a paper published in the Journal of the American Medical Association on potential cancer risk reduction:
http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Multivitamin-supplements-may-cut-cancer-risk-JAMA-paper
An 8% reduction in cancer would make an enormous difference in overall, world-wide cancer incidence. Moreover, how would longer term (or starting younger in life) affect the decrease. l would be will to guess increase it further.
The bottom line is that she can have a valid opinion about whether or not there is a significant benefit to taking a multivitamin, and even to some extent on differing dosages. She is simply wrong and inaccurate with her analysis of potential dangers.
Best Regards,
Russ Barton MS, CNS, CISSN
Senior Nutrition Scientist
USANA Science information - R&D
Aside from the discussion of safety issues (which l will address later), much of her opinion is typical of many dietitians and health professionals who simply feel supplements are a waste and that all you need to do is eat a healthy, balanced diet. While this may be true to an extent, how many people actually do eat a perfect diet? l would submit that it is quite rare, and I would be willing to bet that she does not either on a consistent basis.
The following are a couple of links on our database related to the general reason for supplementing and a general safety response:
http://obs.usana.com/UPLOADS/usana/2005/236/236-1 OHA.html
http://obs.usana.com/UPLOADS/usana/2005
(the article is a little out of date, but the principle is still valid)
http://obs.usana.com/UPLOADS/usana/2011/63/63-1 NAA.html
Here is a response previously written to a similar question:
The "expensive urine" argument is fairly common, especially among traditional physicians and dietitians. The following is a response to a similar question that may have information that will be helpful for you.
"Many times people make statements like this without really thinking it through.
Besides a couple of obvious ones, how would you really know if a person needs x or y nutrient without testing. ln addition, they typically point to the common one like in your question: the B vitamins (there are 8 of them, including folic acid), vitamin C, vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, zinc, fish oil, etc.
Considering you can't really know a person‘s nutritional status without extensive testing and accurate dietary history, and then admit that there are 12-13 common ones that many people need, l don't understand the point of avoiding a multivitamin. This really reminds me of the official position of the American Dietetic Association on supplements. The paper spends the first two pages discussing why people just need to eat a healthy diet and that there is no need for supplements. Then it spends the next 6 or 7 pages talking about all the exceptions (B12, folic acid, calcium, vitamin D, etc, etc).
Wouldn't it just be simpler to take a good multi?
l can, however, broadly state that it is very difficult to precisely determine an individual's nutritional status unless specific and expensive tests are performed by a qualified physician or laboratory. It isn't as simple as many people might think. For example, it might be necessary to perform a certain blood test for one nutrient but it may require a completely different blood test to determine another nutrient. Historically, many questionable methods have been used to determine a person‘s nutritional status. Unfortunately, they simply cannot give an accurate indication of nutritional status for each nutrient all in one test.
Here are just a few examples of some methods used to analyze nutritional status:
· to assess the vitamin E status of an individual, an Erythrocyte Hemolysis Test using blood plasma is generally used
· a microbiological assay is used to determine folate levels in blood
· atomic absorption spectrometry is best to measure zinc
· urine analysis can be used to assess magnesium
· iron status is evaluated normally used serum or plasma ferritin
One way of determining whether or not your current diet is up to par is to list everything you eat for a week and determine the nutritional content of these items. It is a little more time-consuming than most people would like, but it gives you a fairly good idea where you stand nutritionally.
Ultimately, it really comes down to this: regardless of your current diet, it is highly unlikely that you are getting the nutrients you need to prevent degenerative diseases. The amounts of nutrients shown to be preventative in mainstream medical literature are generally higher than the RDAs.
The amount of nutrients a person should be getting is an interesting issue. First, it is important to note that all of USANA‘s products are supposed to supplement a well-balanced diet and not to replace good eating habits. Eating right and exercising is the basis for good health.
Our supplements are designed to meet the needs of all adults of any culture, size, age, gender, and weight. This is somewhat difficult to do, since there can be variations between people. To make sure we meet the needs of all individuals we put in a good amount of nutrients into our tablets. Every individuals who takes the products, regardless of culture, age, sex, weight, etc. - their body will use whatever nutrients it needs and either store the rest or excrete them in the urine or the faeces. As long as their kidney function is normal, this is not a problem. The important thing is to make sure that when those nutrients are needed - they have been provided in the diet.
Putting a balanced amount of nutrients in the products is the easiest and best method we know of at USANA to cover the needs of all normal adults.
For a simply analogy, I tend to think of the use of nutritional supplements like wearing a seatbelt in a car. You may never need it, and if you never get in a wreck you may even say it did nothing. However, if you do routinely wear your seat belt you are much less likely to be killed or severely injured if you do get in an accident. You wear it for peace of mind and prevention. I hope that makes sense.
The following is a booklet entitled Benefits of Nutritional Supplementation from the Council for Responsible Nutrition:
http://www.crnusa.org/00benefits toc.html
The following contains pages of clinical research on our products and collaborations with other research organizations. ln addition, about 4 years of Essentials of Health e-mails are archived here. Each week a peer-reviewed paper on supplementation, nutrition and health is summarized. These summaries are a great way to show third party published research in support of supplementation and
healthy lifestyle.
http://www.usana.com/dotCom/differencg/hir
To answer a couple of her specific points, she mentioned a concern over vitamin E. First of all, the dosage of vitamin E in the EU is 30 mg. This dosage is so far below levels proposed to be a potential concern (ie.>400 mg) that it isn't even relevant. ln addition, the product also contains mixed tocopherols (beta, gamma, delta), but maybe she didn't see that on the label.
The vitamin A activity in the Essentials is entirely from beta-carotene. And, as a dietitian, she should know that beta-carotene does not cause or relate to an overdose or excess of vitamin A at any known level. The EU Essentials contain 800 mcg (1,333 IU) of beta-carotene. Implying that this could be potentially excessive is laughable since a single carrot contains approximately 20,200 lU of beta- carotene.
As far as antioxidants being deleterious, again it is a matter of context and dosage. Oxidant killing of “foreign bodies" by our immune cells is a very localized phenomenon. For example, antioxidants would help blunt the nondescript oxidant stress/damaged caused by run-away, hyper inflammation. lt is true that people with poor diet or with certain health concerns may have more immediate or significant benefit from supplements, at least initially. But, implying that there is little research showing benefits of multivitamins in healthy individuals is simply just not true. The previous booklet (CRN link) provided some examples, and here is a very recent (Oct 2012) summary of a paper published in the Journal of the American Medical Association on potential cancer risk reduction:
http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Multivitamin-supplements-may-cut-cancer-risk-JAMA-paper
An 8% reduction in cancer would make an enormous difference in overall, world-wide cancer incidence. Moreover, how would longer term (or starting younger in life) affect the decrease. l would be will to guess increase it further.
The bottom line is that she can have a valid opinion about whether or not there is a significant benefit to taking a multivitamin, and even to some extent on differing dosages. She is simply wrong and inaccurate with her analysis of potential dangers.
Best Regards,
Russ Barton MS, CNS, CISSN
Senior Nutrition Scientist
USANA Science information - R&D
Information and statements regarding dietary and nutritional supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
